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Conclave of Providence • View topic - Proposal - The Establishment of War-Holds

Proposal - The Establishment of War-Holds

All proposals on the Status of Holders should be posted here for debate.

Re: Proposal - The Establishment of War-Holds

Postby JedsZero » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:03 pm

JedsZero
Principalof the Providence Empyrean Council
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Re: Proposal - The Establishment of War-Holds

Postby Vaari » Wed Jun 01, 2016 8:35 pm

If Providence really wants some official, unanomous titles, then I demand to be part of the group that makes them. Titles like Lord should only be reserved on those, who are lords in real life. If we give even a hint that we had our own lords who are part of some Providence nobility then sooner or later we have our very own lords who are not very willing to cede their titles to the Empire.

Reign of Jamyl I showed very early how jealously lords and noble ladies safeguard their privlegies. When her imperial majesty commanded certain slaves to be released, we saw open rebellions against that rule. We know for fact that many are loyal so long as ruler ignores one subjects.

Even now, when we have not even spoken publicly anything related of Providence own nobility, we have secession movement called Volition Cult. We have also heresy that worship spoon and goats.
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Re: Proposal - The Establishment of War-Holds

Postby JedsZero » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:34 am

Again... we are not creating nobility... I honestly do not understand why we are are still debating that, there will be no Providence nobility... they are just titles of office... which is something that, in all honesty, I could implement within my own organization today if I were to want to. But instead we are trying to create something that is unified in all of Providence.

On top of that, everyone here is part of the group deciding on the titles, there is no need to demand to be part of these proceedings as everyone here is already a part of them...

I would like to urge all here to return to real debate at hand, and that is the actual titles of office. Arguing about the fact that we can't claim to be equal to Imperial Nobility is not the point of this, because everyone here acknowledges and agrees that we cannot, should not and will not ever make any such claims... This is purely and solely about unifying honorary, non-hereditary, titles of office across all entities currently holding sovereignty in Providence. What those titles should be is what this debate should really be about... if anyone here doesn't like either of the two proposed sets of titles... simply propose a set of other titles you feel are more appropriate. Because again, this is not about nobility or creating nobility... it is about honorary, non-hereditary, titles of office... and at the moment we have two proposed options to choose from... so again, if anyone feels neither of those work, please propose a third one so we can keep this debate both on topic and moving forward.
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Re: Proposal - The Establishment of War-Holds

Postby W Sherman Elric » Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:49 am

My good man Jed I can see your point your plan it is so nice in abstract. As I have said before it could even work at the highest levels of Providence Coalition level, however that said.... It falls completely apart at and below the holder level. My example stands I wish all the luck and grace of Her to anyone who tries to convince Furious Pig to grant anyone in -7- a title beyond that required for day to day operations. Also -7- doesn't not subscribe to the corporation system that you speak of. All of -7- space is run and controlled by -7- no exceptions. Yes a corp may have stronger presence within a given system but that systems bills, and major structures are 100% -7-'s. We can not create rules in which there is no recourse for equity amongst all holders.

lets take Hero tackle Sue the Blue. She is an amazing pilot day after day fight after fight she is glorious. As she flys in CVA primetime "everyone" knows her. Now Dixie the Blonde is every bit as good and does just as much as Sue but (and here is the important part dear sir), Dixie flys in late USTZ aside from the defense fleets she flys no one knows who she is. Even if Sue's CEO was an Ass everyone would know and push her title forward. Sue has options to advance, Dixie doesn't.
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Re: Proposal - The Establishment of War-Holds

Postby JedsZero » Thu Jun 02, 2016 3:34 am

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Re: Proposal - The Establishment of War-Holds

Postby Vaari » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:22 am

Tell me which positions holders you want title and I will guide you to establish proper titles. Those titles hold great prestige, but do not compete with the Amarr empire.
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Re: Proposal - The Establishment of War-Holds

Postby Laurentian Korvush » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:26 am

Younger brother of a minor holder in khanid, history with the order of st tetrimon. exact capacity ist still to be reviewed so i don't mess up stuff.
if you feel I am missinterpreting or am unaware of PF, please contact me OOC so I can correct myself ;)
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Re: Proposal - The Establishment of War-Holds

Postby Vaari » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:09 pm

Leader of the CVA/First alliance leader of the Holder Alliances: Autocrator of Providence

Alliance Leader: Mandator of (Alliance)

System owner : Magistros of (system)

Great fleet leader*: Strategos

Minor fleet leader**: Protostrator

Providence senior religious leade***r: Ecumenical Patriarch of Silent Infinity and Celestial Patriarch of Providence.

* Fleets that travel a lot or have great strategic value
** More or less local fleets, like mining fleet
*** My official title that Provibloc will grant me in very near future.
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Re: Proposal - The Establishment of War-Holds

Postby JedsZero » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:46 pm

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Re: Proposal - The Establishment of War-Holds

Postby Vaari » Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:52 pm

I think protector is just someone who protects. Alliance leader must be much more. I have asked guidance from Heaven and those are the answers I got. They hold great prestige and are worthy for anyone no matter of their social status in Empire space.

Every alliance must be still free to use their own titles, but I think we should aim to use also Providence wide titles. At the beginning it will be difficult, but in time they will form their own standard and additional prestige will be found on those titles.
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